In this episode, Sylvia interviews Lili Vasileff, an innovative financial planner, author and speaker who has carved a niche for herself in the complex arena of divorce financial planning. Discover how Lili's dedication to educating and supporting individuals during one of life's most challenging transitions led to the founding of the Association of Divorce Financial Planners. Learn how she perfected the art of building trust and credibility in her industry. Lili also goes into detail about how being a consistent presence in your field by contributing articles, sharing knowledge freely, and truly listening can establish you as an indispensable resource to your clients. We share strategies for nurturing client relationships such as creating a thriving practice, emphasizing networking, mentorship, and reciprocal referral partnerships. This episode is not just a look behind the scenes of a successful practice but a treasure trove of actionable advice for divorce financial planners!
Resources Mentioned
Association of Divorce Financial Planners (ADFP)
Lili's Books: Available on Amazon
Lili’s Website
Lili’s Linkedin
Lili’s Facebook
Lili’s Instagram
Lili’s Youtube
Download our free marketing workbook
Chapters
(0:14:17) The Crucial Role of Credibility and Active Listening in Client Relations (0:18:06) The Art of Nurturing Client Relationships and Fostering Referral Partnerships
(0:24:23) Tactics for Amplifying Thought Leadership and Connections in Professional Circles
(0:32:57) The Exciting Journey of Writing an Industry-First
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"Love listening and learning from the Serve First, Sell Later Marketing Podcast” If that sounds like you, please consider rating and reviewing my show! This helps me support more people -- just like you. Click here, scroll to the bottom, tap to rate with five stars, and select “Write a Review.” Then be sure to let me know what you loved most about the episode!
Sign up for our free LinkedIn newsletter on marketing your professional practice
Click here for a free strategy call
In this episode, Sylvia interviews Lili Vasileff, an innovative financial planner, author and speaker who has carved a niche for herself in the complex arena of divorce financial planning. Discover how Lili's dedication to educating and supporting individuals during one of life's most challenging transitions led to the founding of the Association of Divorce Financial Planners. Learn how she perfected the art of building trust and credibility in her industry. Lili also goes into detail about how being a consistent presence in your field by contributing articles, sharing knowledge freely, and truly listening can establish you as an indispensable resource to your clients. We share strategies for nurturing client relationships such as creating a thriving practice, emphasizing networking, mentorship, and reciprocal referral partnerships. This episode is not just a look behind the scenes of a successful practice but a treasure trove of actionable advice for divorce financial planners!
Resources Mentioned
Association of Divorce Financial Planners (ADFP)
Lili's Books: Available on Amazon
Lili’s Website
Lili’s Linkedin
Lili’s Facebook
Lili’s Instagram
Lili’s Youtube
Download our free marketing workbook
Chapters
(0:14:17) The Crucial Role of Credibility and Active Listening in Client Relations (0:18:06) The Art of Nurturing Client Relationships and Fostering Referral Partnerships
(0:24:23) Tactics for Amplifying Thought Leadership and Connections in Professional Circles
(0:32:57) The Exciting Journey of Writing an Industry-First
Rate, Review, & Follow on Apple Podcasts
"Love listening and learning from the Serve First, Sell Later Marketing Podcast” If that sounds like you, please consider rating and reviewing my show! This helps me support more people -- just like you. Click here, scroll to the bottom, tap to rate with five stars, and select “Write a Review.” Then be sure to let me know what you loved most about the episode!
Sign up for our free LinkedIn newsletter on marketing your professional practice
Click here for a free strategy call
00:00 - Lili (Guest)
Visibility is critical. You need to be everywhere that's appropriate. You need to be constant at it. You need to keep at it, no matter what And'm presenting to therapists. I'm in psychology today. I'm writing articles. Every allied profession around divorce needs to know about a resource, a trusted resource, a go-to place where they can get quick information.
00:44 - Sylvia (Host)
I'm Sylvie Garibaldi, founder and CEO of a well-established marketing, training and done for you services company, tailored specifically for the modern legal and financial professional worldwide. While it's taken some trial and error to figure out which methods get the best results for professionals who are looking to grow their practices Fast forward to today, my team and I have nailed down and perfected a process that has helped so many of our clients consistently achieve outstanding results and create a legacy for their practices. I created the Serve First, Sell Later marketing podcast to give you simple, actionable, non-salesy and results-driven marketing to grow your legal or financial practice, like so many of our clients have. If you're a lawyer, mediator, financial or divorce professional who is looking to become highly visible and wants to create a practice that makes an impact, then you're in the right place. Let's dive in.
01:42
Hello everyone and welcome back to episode 22 of the Serve First, Sell Later marketing podcast, and in this episode I'm honored to have a special guest, Lily Vasiliev, who is a fee-only certified financial planner, master analyst in financial forensics, certified divorce financial analystalyst and President of Wealth Protection Management based in Connecticut. Lily is a trained mediator, collaborative financial specialist and qualified litigation expert. She trains divorce professionals in the collaborative process and teaches on financial topics regularly at the various bar associations and financial organizations and events. Lily is also president of the National Association of Divorce Financial Planners, ADFP. She is a nationally recognized expert practitioner, speaker, writer and author of four books, and has won numerous prestigious awards as a highly coveted expert in her field. So welcome, Lily.
02:44
I'm so excited to have you on the show today. When we first connected, I was so impressed by your experience and your esteemed background as a certified divorce financial analyst, mediator, matrimonial litigation expert, divorce financial expert, speaker, author. I could go on and on, and I was so, so impressed with your background because you truly are a thought leader in this space, and that's why I wanted to have you come on the show and share your wisdom and your marketing experience, the marketing strategies that you've actually utilized that have helped you become an influencer in the divorce financial arena. So I'm really honored to have you on the show. Thank you for being here.
03:31 - Lili (Guest)
You, sylvia. I could not have hoped for a better introduction. It was love, awesome, and likewise to you too for being an influencer. Thank you, Thank you.
03:42 - Sylvia (Host)
So I thought where we could start, Lily, is to share a little bit about your background and how you first got started in the divorce financial planning arena Sounds wonderful.
03:52 - Lili (Guest)
So, like many, many other professionals, there's always a personal story behind a passion. And when I first started, I had just gone through my own divorce and it was fairly awful, as everyone can imagine. And it occurred to me that as I was going through my divorce, having been in the corporate finance field, that I was offering financial information to my own attorneys and I thought that was a little bit unexpected. And as we went along, it really dawned on me that much of what was being presented to me was very cookie cutter and didn't take into account really any priorities or interests or personal goals. And I came away from the process a very unhappy person. I had a successful outcome, but I didn't think the process was a very fair, reasonable experience. And I moved cross-country with two small children, came to the East Coast and at that time, being young and being much more energetic, I actually thought that people deserved a better experience through the divorce process. They needed to have a place where they could actually learn something, gain some skills and come away from the experience feeling that they had done the best they could have done.
05:20
And so, with a little bit of effort, I actually went around to many, many, many matrimonial attorneys and I said don't you need financial expertise in divorce? I mean, isn't divorce about money and children? And why is it so tilted toward the legal side when it should be tilted toward giving people a roadmap for when you come out of the divorce? And they all looked at me and said that's a lovely idea, but I can tell you you need to get a real job. And they all patted me on the back and I just go on your merry way and I thought to myself wow, this is really infuriating.
06:02
And again, being a little bit zealot, I said this can't be. So I was encouraged by actually divorce therapists to address the fact that mostly women felt completely unbalanced and undereducated and ill-equipped coming out of the divorce process, often feeling worse than when they went into the divorce process. So with that encouragement, I went back and got all kinds of financial designations and credentials and training and there were, as I recall, one individual at that time this goes back to the late 1990s who was focusing on giving tools to financial practitioners in the divorce arena and I studied with her and I actually became a teacher for her business as well, and a group of us in the Northeast decided let's get together let's figure this out of how we can make consistency in the practice and start attracting like-minded professionals who want to make divorce a better experience for clients and help them financially to understand options, to make better decisions. And that's how it all started and it became the Association of Divorce Financial.
07:17 - Sylvia (Host)
Planners Amazing. So I did forget to add one thing in there in terms of introducing you, and that is trailblazer. Trailblazer for coming out of a passion, for being in a situation where you felt kind of like boxed in and you were basically saying to yourself how can this be? What are the solutions out there? And then taking it on your own and then discovering and creating the association that you've just mentioned. That has been around for a while and has certainly helped so many families going through divorce. So I'd love to hear more about this association and how you got it started and some of the work that you've done there, because I think that's absolutely incredible. The Association for Divorce Financial Planners is. I mean, that's such an important way to be able to help other professionals and families going through the same thing, so love to hear more about that Our mission at the very beginning, and remains true today, is that divorce financial planning should be integral to every divorce process.
08:19 - Lili (Guest)
Everyone deserves to have a financial education, financial advice and to have planning so that when they exit the divorce process, as I said before, they have guidance and support and they have a sense of confidence that they made well-informed decisions.
08:37
So this started out with a group of certified financial planners. We were really the first group that decided to focus on a specialty called divorce, and to do so we wanted to attract a very good caliber of practitioner, and to do that we needed to have consistency in practice. We started working on standards, we started working on ethics protocols for the process and we laid it all out, literally the entire six or seven phases to the divorce financial planning process we laid out, and then we went to all the other financial organizations over the years to become recognized in this professional niche and to build communities for practitioners who wanted to learn about divorce planning within the FPA, within NACFA, within NACFA, within you name it different kinds of organizations, and create liaisons. Our group itself grew from I think it was six of us to, you know, hundreds that we've now had as members.
09:46
It is a membership-based organization, a not-for-profit. We do not make any money off of our membership. We do education as our primary and core value to membership and, like we will have you as a webinar, which I would love to see and have you share with our members and it's that advanced level of learning that we bring to our members that is so critical and so focused that cannot be found elsewhere. I mean, this is really where you come to find out what your comrades are doing, how they practice, learn standards, development, you know where the glitches are and share stories so that there's a camaraderie and you can learn from one another without any kind of bias or judgment or fear that you have said something that's out of turn, because all of us have been through the process of learning and gaining the skills and then applying the skills.
10:46
Often it's not so easy. I mean, you know and I know we are working in a sandbox and it's a legal sandbox that the attorneys control. No doubt about it, divorce will remain a legal process no matter what. So we have to be very respectful and knowledgeable about what the boundaries are and knowledgeable about what the boundaries are, and we work with our clients as a support and supplement to a legal process and that is essential to divorce. Financial planning.
11:15 - Sylvia (Host)
Yeah, love that. And so you put together this nonprofit organization to help other professionals hone their skills and become better at divorce financial planning, all while you're running your own practice and you're volunteering and building knowledge for other professionals so that they can better serve their clients. So I absolutely love how you've done that, but I would imagine that that took a lot of time away from your business to actually help build this organization, along with your colleagues who helped you build that. So when you look back at building the Association of Divorce Financial Planners and you look at your practice, how do you think it's actually helped you build your practice, maybe better market it? What are your thoughts on that? Because I'm always curious to learn how people you volunteer, you dedicate yourself, you're passionate about what you do and you've got to still grow your business. So how did you do that?
12:15 - Lili (Guest)
It's a great question. I just want to compliment you. It's a great question. I've asked myself this the same over many years.
12:22
So I served as president for over 15 years of this association Wow, and I poured a lot of blood, sweat and tears into it.
12:32
Yes, you are correct. It takes away time, valuable time, from building a business and or your own practice. I was that tenacious that this profession had tremendous value. I wanted it to survive and thrive and I really gave it my all and give it my all today, meeting incredible individuals out there to being a spokesperson for a professional niche in the media, because literally we were climbing a mountain and we wanted to get the word out. So a few of us became the spokespersons for the ADFP, the association, and that did help tremendously in terms of building contacts, media contacts, credibility in the industry, and when something or someone had, you know, a crazy divorce or there was you know somebody in the news like a celebrity, they contacted us and it was wonderful, and so a lot of it was, you know, reciprocity in terms of what I gave to the association really helped me gain confidence in being a spokesperson for the profession and gaining that credibility and reputation within the industry itself.
13:54 - Sylvia (Host)
As well, absolutely. I can see how it would help build the know like trust factor incredibly quickly, being in the role that you are in at the ADFP, and I can see how you know from speaking engagements to media opportunities. As you said, you became the spokesperson and so elevating yourself in the media itself. Somebody's Googling you, which most people are doing nowadays, trying to figure out is this a person I want to hire? What's their background? What is their thought leadership? What do people say about them? People are Googling others all the time before they purchase any kind of service, any kind of product. So knowing and seeing you in the online space, people say oh, she contributed to this article, she's a speaker here. I would imagine that that really helps to build the credibility much faster and I think that's what you're indicating has helped significantly Visibility is critical.
14:51 - Lili (Guest)
You need to be everywhere that's appropriate. You need to be constant at it, you need to keep at it, no matter what, and you need to go after, as as well, recognition from other professionals. So, for example, I'm not just in the media talking about divorce financial planning, but I'm presenting to attorneys, I'm presenting to therapists, I'm in psychology today, I'm writing articles. Every allied profession around divorce needs to know about a resource, a trusted resource, a go-to place where they can get quick information and, along the way, let me just add this too it has been my great privilege to be able to contribute information, and I don't benefit financially from it, but I am contributing information wherever there is a request for it, and so that's a really large part of what I do as well. I'm feeding information to people that are reaching out and say, gee, you know, I just need this question answered, or whatever.
15:53
On the flip side of that, I also do a lot of pro bono with clients, and I think that's an important give back for every professional, no matter what. So, in the end, I think the integrity of what we are trying to do has to speak for itself the integrity of how you work with colleagues, how you work with clients. How you work in the public and pro bono and give and donate and contribute to an education that is going to help all the families is really the whole crux of what I do. I mean that's why I do what I do is to make a difference and to make a positive difference.
16:36 - Sylvia (Host)
And that you are doing for sure. So congratulations for that, thank you, because you have certainly made huge contributions to this industry. And so one of the things you spoke about was visibility and being present and offering advice, and so one of the things that we see in terms of visibility is that omni-presence so being in multiple places where potential referral partners and prospects can find you. So that's definitely something that I've clued in that you've done incredibly well. You're spreading your thought leadership, and then that's how clients and referral partners are being attracted to what you do. So let me ask you this you talked about ethics and how you work with your clients, and so I'm curious how do you help your clients get the best results?
17:27 - Lili (Guest)
Well, in any number of different ways. The very first is that you need to listen carefully. Listen really truly carefully, without bias, without judgment, and try to decipher how this fits into. What are the parameters within the process, whether it's mediation or collaborative or litigation. I find, much to my frustration, that many times people do not listen to their clients, and I can give you so many stories about this, but you know, one comes to mind which just always makes me laugh, and I think that's the first step. The second step is to help them feel as if they can prepare. Action speaks louder than words. Giving them guidance and actual step-by-step instruction to help them get started, to prepare for what will now come is like saying let's do homework, so when you have your quiz tomorrow, you actually know what it's going to be about, because most people don't have any interaction whatsoever with an attorney until they go through a divorce. So it's frightening, it's intimidating for them, and I would just add, probably a lot of these people don't have financial advisors either. But once they understand that you're there to support them through a process, it becomes a very different kind of dynamic, and a good one. So how do I help my clients get the best outcome. That's the first piece.
18:57
Preparing is the second piece. Making sure that all questions are addressed. However they may sound to me, they need to be addressed. If there's something rattling around in somebody's brain and it's like three in the morning, I tell them get up, write it down, keep it, send it to me later Don't wake me up at three but it's important because it's giving them anxiety and it's causing distraction. So many times people are so distracted by anxiety or fear or paralysis that they're not focused on what they could do for themselves, and that's why you need to address it as best you can at each step of the way, and I think the next part to that is to be able to develop options. You know, think on your feet, be a little bit creative. Nothing's black and white in this world and I am sure that clients can come up with information that they never thought they could before just because you're sitting there and taking it in and asking them more and more questions, generating the kind of probing that is soft in many cases and also to the point.
20:07 - Sylvia (Host)
Yes, and I think what you've described is like the VIP treatment of clients coming in and getting inside of their brains and understanding the questions they're going to have, and I absolutely love that.
20:21
You, you know, just step by step, here's what we do. Step one is we do this. Step two is we do this, and I think when you are working with someone who is going through something as tragic as a divorce, their brain, it's stressed, and so when a brain is stressed, they may not be able to understand what do I do. They feel overwhelmed. So I think the VIP treatment that you offer with let me walk you through the process, let me hold your hand this is step one. This is what we do. Once we do this, we move on to this, and I think I absolutely just think that that is a brilliant way to guide people that are going through something that's incredibly difficult and, for some, one of the most challenging times in their lives, where they may not be thinking as straight as they would like to because there's just too much stress going on. So guiding them through that process is absolutely important.
21:09 - Lili (Guest)
You're so right, but I'm going to jump in, sylvia. Many times we think of people going through divorce as one of the hardest transitions that they will have. I stopped saying on the phone oh, I'm so sorry to hear that because many times I was countered with are you kidding? This is the best thing that could ever happen to me. So I stopped considering it that way. Number one and number two, you have to deal with each personality and I mean this in all sincerity.
21:38
There are many individuals who come into a divorce process as a business transaction. They're often told oh, think of it as a business. But there are people who actually come in thinking it's a business transaction. They don't have the patience to have me handle. They want to know what's this, how do I get to here and how long is it going to take. And those individuals have an entirely different you know hand-holding kind of walkthrough right, and there I'm very clear this is what happens, this is what I need from you, this is what we're going to do with it, and this is going to expedite and be more efficient to get to the finish line. And so, really, the handling of the client is completely case specific and I think that comes with experience.
22:25 - Sylvia (Host)
Obviously, that comes with experience. Yes, because you're able to figure out where they are in the process, what is their personality, how to deal with them. And so, you're right, experience does play a factor there for sure. So if we're looking at transitioning to how one builds a practice and how I mean, referrals are the lifeblood of a lot of legal and financial practices what is your best advice you would give to anyone who is looking to build those referral partnerships? How do you do it?
23:11 - Lili (Guest)
And how do you make sure a reciprocal relationship? Because that's a big complaint we hear. It's unbalanced.
23:15
I've been in this business a thousand years and you have to go out and get every last hour of your business and it never ends. So I mean I've been more fortunate than that. But I think here's where you need to be proactive professionals. Show up at every single important and appropriate meeting that you can every bar association, every conference, make yourself known, walk around, introduce yourselves. It never ends, it's always pushing and pushing eventually gets you somewhere. The other side to that is you can always offer to mentor, be a mentor of a new person and have them shadow. You get them used to it. Introduce them to my referrals which I do and make sure that they feel welcome in the space so that they can ask questions as a newbie and not be rejected or laughed at or whatever it is, and they can grow from that too.
24:23
We, hopefully, are trying to encourage as many interested professionals as possible and in the career you got to put your nose down and just really try and work hard. Go to as many kinds of educational events as possible, but be there in person, see people. I mean I just came to a conference that I hadn't seen a lot of people for. I don't know how many years have we had COVID now Four years and I literally went to be the face in the room and I looked around this room of 200 plus people. I was the only financial person at this attorney meeting Incredible, so you just have to get out there.
25:06 - Sylvia (Host)
That speaks volumes for what people need to do and, as you said, get out there and start having those conversations. So, referring partnerships, what I think I'm hearing from you is it's like building your thought leadership, putting yourself out there, publishing those articles, speaking on those stages, creating webinars, doing joint events with other professionals. That kind of leads to the becoming known and developing that thought leadership, which then expedites the referral partnership relationships. Yes, absolutely yeah, yeah. And so what I think you've done brilliantly is that you are a sought out speaker and I know you've spoken on many stages, and my question for you is, for those that are aspiring to do that, because they know that's going to help in so many ways. Not only will it attract more ideal prospects, but referral partners as well. What are the steps you would recommend to any professional who wants to find these stages, wants to get on there and deliver their value to potential prospects and referral partners?
26:13 - Lili (Guest)
And you do a lot of that. The big V volunteer Volunteer to plan events. Get to know committee people, be there and offer great suggestions of ideas or topics or speakers. Be a part of it. In other words, everyone loves someone who's contributed to something and when you are part of the planning process they get to know you and you can make suggestions. You can be on a panel, you could be a moderator, you could be at the check-in place and get to see everyone checking in. I mean, whatever it is, the idea is put in your dues and work hard in the sense of meeting people, because it's all about people and many times Relationships.
27:05
It's all about relationships, it's all about connecting, staying connected and being valuable as a resource for someone. So, for example, the ADFP, the association, has just reached out with affiliate partners and, from the affiliate partnerships that we started developing, guess what? They invited, you know, some of us to be speakers at their conference, right, and vice versa. And that's how it works when you start collaborating with your colleagues, it just starts to flow and it flows really nicely.
27:41 - Sylvia (Host)
That's an excellent example, absolutely excellent example. The world is so interconnected so you'd be surprised at who knows who and you know how the conversation can flow to an introduction of any kind, and I know for some of the work that you've done. You've spoken on some big stages and would you say that part of how you've been able to get booked as a speaker on these stages is through not only your connections and relationships but some of the credibility building work that you did as part of the association.
28:14 - Lili (Guest)
I think yes, but I also think, just to get this out there, everyone likes a story about divorce and there aren't that many people who talk about divorce in the context of whatever the conference might be. If it's a valuation conference, if it's a tax seminar, if it's an estate planning seminar, if it's a financial planning conference, you have to take the topic and put it within the context of what's happening for the attendees, like how are they going to use this information and use it practically? And once you can figure out how to transform what you're really good at in terms of a topic into what the attendees can learn from it and deliver from it, that gets you so far into this network of speaking engagements. And, for example, I was at the National Financial Planners Association Conference and I sat at a table with a lot of insurance people I don't sell anything, I'm a VOCFP and they were all talking about annuities and I looked at them and I said you know, have you ever considered annuities and what issues are in divorce? And they all looked at me and went what a great topic.
29:28
And it all starts from there. It just kind of rolls. You roll with it. So annuities can be great because they are income providers, but they're like a nightmare to divide in divorce. So you know all of those issues that they possibly could be interested in, right? So that's how it works. You just have to think of how can they use this information around my topic of divorce. What would be important for them in their business?
29:58 - Sylvia (Host)
And get creative around how to do that. And that's exactly what we help our clients do when they're like, where do I go, how do I speak, where do I find these stages. And that's exactly what we help them do is figure out, well, where are you connected or where can the messaging come in? Get creative with the different places where you can speak, and most often people go oh gosh, I didn't even think about speaking at that particular organization or association. And it's so true, because there are so many different places where you're going to find people that have a need for divorce. That may not be quite traditional, but just thinking outside of the box and how you can add value.
30:35
And I love the example of annuity, because people may not piece all those things together, or professionals that are trying to figure this out are not really thinking out the entire process of how, how they could actually find these different stages. And we know that, whether it's in person or a virtual stage, when you are out there spreading your thought leadership, that is marketing and that is what starts attracting, yes, the right ideal prospects and referral partners. But it has to be done on a consistent basis. If it's not happening consistently, it's going to be really difficult to get that momentum. So the other thing I want to touch on, because I think this is a really important area of building thought leadership, is becoming an author, and you have written four books amazing four books and so I'd love for you to share with me the books and any kind of advice you can give to people who are interested in going down that avenue to help them build their practices.
31:39 - Lili (Guest)
Well, this is a funny story. So the first two books are related to one another, and the first one is called the Ultimate Divorce Organizer, which was proposed by a publisher to a friend of mine who was a divorce coach. And she said you know what? This is kind of like a baby planner or maybe like a wedding planner, but they want a divorce planner. And we both laughed and said are you kidding? And so it's literally a notebook where you write down your notes. You can take out pieces of paper, you can put down business cards. It's exactly like what you imagined it to be. And she said I can't do the financial piece. I absolutely have no clue. And so we sat down for a couple of weekends in a row and banged out this book. And then they created a shorter book called the Divorce Planner Checklist that can literally go in your purse or your pockets or hide under your seat in the car, and it was the idea that you take it with you wherever you're going, whoever you're interviewing, whatever resource you need to find. You're writing notes all the time and sticking it in these things. That was the first and I thought that's not bad, that's okay, that's great.
32:52
The third one, which was really my biggest one. I was invited by the American Bar Association to write their first and only book on money and divorce and I went through an editorial committee. I proposed the table of contents, all of the attachments, glossary, et cetera, and that took me probably close to a year, to two, almost two years, and I'm very proud of that book. It, I think, elevates divorce, financial planning, in the eyes of the industry and I was very proud and honored to be able to do that. And that book is called Money and Divorce the Essential Roadmap to Mastering Financial Decisions, and that's available through Amazon, through the ABA, everywhere. I think that book in and of itself is the step-by-step instructional guide on how to prepare financially for divorce and what are the financial issues, and there are tips.
33:55
There are mistakes laid out in there all kinds of things. There are no stories. This is all about financial issues. And when I was asked to write the book, I literally went every place I could and pulled all the divorce books I could everywhere I found, and all the divorce books I found have stories. So I thought, oh, I'm not good at this. I'm just not good at writing stories. I'm very, very, you know, straightforward. And then I thought, yeah, but there's no book that tells you what are your choices when it comes to a house, Like, just lay them out for me and tell me what I need to know. So that's how I created this book and I actually like it a lot.
34:41 - Sylvia (Host)
Yes, well, I mean, it's quite impressive that the American Bar Association asked you to write this book on money and divorce. So if that's not leading the way, paving the way, I don't know what is, because that's quite amazing opportunity to be able to do that. And so all of your books, we'll actually put links to them in the show notes so that anyone who's?
35:03
interested in getting a hold of them. They can actually do that. So what is your take on that? You're an author and so you've written these books. You've had some very prestigious associations approach you to write. How has that helped you in your practice?
35:18 - Lili (Guest)
I think everything that one accomplishes is just another mark of credibility. People feel more safe. They feel as if you must be a trusted resource and hopefully you always have good word of mouth so that when you are working with professionals you've never worked with before, they will have heard of you and about you and they can look you up and they can find whatever resources they think are important in order to validate what their choices are. Does it bring money in the door, who knows? It's a hard call to ever measure what credibility is worth, but I think it's just part of the trajectory of a career. If you really feel strongly and continue to be passionate about what I do, which is to bring trusted professionals into this practice to make sure the divorce process itself is a more holistic one for clients going through it, then it just seems like there's just never enough to do. I mean, you just have to keep at it.
36:20 - Sylvia (Host)
And so what advice would you give to anyone who's starting out their practice, they're becoming a divorce financial planner, and or any other professional for that matter what advice would you give them? Or what would you wish you did earlier to really help you grow your practice, build your thought leadership, work with those referral partners. Does anything come to mind?
36:43 - Lili (Guest)
Well, when I first started out, there really wasn't anyone who could mentor me, so it was really carving new ground. It was hard to know who was out there and there was a tremendous amount of bias again an outsider coming into the legal process. So attorneys were very much accustomed to controlling everything and their clients in the process. So attorneys were very much accustomed to controlling everything and their clients in the process. So it was really a hard haul. What would I recommend to people now?
37:11
Again, just tap into as much education as you can Learn from your allied professionals who are near you, who are close to you whether it's attorneys, whether it's mediators, whether it's other divorce financial professionals and do some homework in the sense of reading up on what may be remarkable case law precedent for the year or recent case issues. Find out what's in sort of the hopper that is challenging to the divorce community at the moment, right, and then find out more about it. So, for example, when we're sitting here and I'm thinking of what just came across my table and what I'm speaking on is artificial intelligence, all right. So how are we going to blend this into practice where it's literally at its revolution, early revolution stage? That's one thing.
38:10
A second thing stay on top of all the financial tax laws and any other kind of accounting rules so that you're not left behind when somebody says oh, by the way, didn't you know that an inherited IRA now is XYZ, and you're like what? So always be cutting edge. Be the best you can be, whether it's in your own profession, whether you're a CPA, whether you're a CFP, whatever you are but also have the next ripple effect of what's happening in the divorce community. Stay on top of the legal issues that are impacting cases. Now Fantastic.
38:49 - Sylvia (Host)
I love that. So one of the things that you tapped into that I know that you wish you had when you had first started was mentorship and using those mentors to help you grow your practice or to help you better understand the industry. So I mean, if there's someone that's coming in, what would you recommend they would do in terms of how do they find these mentors, how do they start these discussions so that they can, you know, start to use that as a resource, but in a way that's authentic and doesn't feel like they're draining someone's time, and a lot of people feel a little uncomfortable with approaching a mentor.
39:23 - Lili (Guest)
First thing, you can look up who is a divorce financial planner within your community. You can go to a few different websites. You can go to our association website and look them up and make a phone call, say I'm just starting. I just spoke to somebody the other day, she's just starting out. I said why don't you join our association? Come learn from us.
39:43
And for the people who perhaps don't feel like they have enough experience or enough guidance, you know we offer a mentorship program. There's another mentorship program with a different organization. Seek them out. Ours is led by three people who have over like 60 years of experience between them and it's 10 months and you get a lot of one-on-one. What could be better than that? Right? So there are many resources out there again that I would say you have to go and find them. They're not going to necessarily fall into your lap, but if you start by picking up the phone and calling some colleagues that are in that business that you want to be in, you know talk to them and say listen, I have 15 minutes of your time, tell me how you got started, Tell me what's important and where do I go.
40:32 - Sylvia (Host)
I'm happy to do that that's amazing, and anyone who's listening to the podcast will say, hey, well, where do I start? And you've just given them some really amazing places to get started, so that there are no excuses. Take that action and keep moving forward. And you've just laid out an action plan for them, which I think can be incredibly useful, especially for those that are starting out.
40:56 - Lili (Guest)
So any parting thoughts, lily. Well, first I want to thank you for this opportunity and I'm hoping that I'm attracting people's interest, because I think we are so few and we could be so many in the sense of resources for clients out there. It's really an under-recognized and under-populated professional niche and it's taken me how many years what? 25 years plus and it it still met with the same kinds of comments of oh, I didn't know you existed, I didn't even know anybody could do that. I'm like, oh, my goodness, how long have I been raised? So it's there, jump with both feet and recognize that, of course, not everything fits everyone, but this is a process that will challenge you creatively, it will challenge you intellectually and it will challenge you emotionally because it's so multifaceted the whole transition of divorce and so when you are really getting interested in this, recognize that it's not a straight line, that this is going to be something that is a little bit outside the box, and be prepared for it and learn from that.
42:10 - Sylvia (Host)
So where can listeners find more about you, lily, about me?
42:15 - Lili (Guest)
Yes, well, I have a YouTube channel. My website is wealthprotectionmanagementcom. And let me think about this. Go to the books. I think books are always wonderful. You can learn a tremendous amount from books.
42:30 - Sylvia (Host)
Absolutely.
42:31 - Lili (Guest)
And go to LinkedIn. I do a lot of posting, a lot of social media. Here's what you taught me Be active in social media, make sure that you're always doing something that's interesting and novel and attractive to people who want to find a new piece of information.
42:49 - Sylvia (Host)
Amazing, fantastic. So we'll put all of the links to the different sites that you recommended, and also even the books, because I think that's super important and people can certainly reach out and get in touch with you that way. So, Lily, thank you so much. This was tremendous. I have learned so much just chatting with you, and thank you for imparting your wisdom on our community, and I know that our listeners will find this episode so valuable and inspirational. So thank you once again for your time.
43:21 - Lili (Guest)
My great pleasure. Thank you once again for your time. My great pleasure, thank you.