Serve First, Sell Later Marketing
Serve First, Sell Later Marketing
#79 Building a Thriving Divorce Coaching Practice with Dr. Susan Korb Bernstein
In this engaging episode, Dr. Susan Korb Bernstein, a renowned figure in the divorce coaching world, shares her journey from educator to leading divorce coach. Susan offers invaluable insights into building a successful divorce coaching practice, effective marketing strategies, and the importance of reframing the mindset around divorce coaching. She discusses her methods for client acquisition, the role of networking, and how offering free consultations and informational sessions on Zoom can aid in converting potential clients. She also touches on the importance of finding a niche, dealing with imposter syndrome, and the need for continuous education and mentorship among divorce coaches. This episode is a treasure trove of practical advice and inspiration!
In this episode you will learn:
- 06:22 Building a Network and Referral Partners
- 09:11 Marketing Mistakes and Lessons Learned
- 19:44 Targeting Your Ideal Market
- 20:22 Proactive vs. Reactive Marketing
- 21:05 Addressing Imposter Syndrome
- 29:39 Handling Unique Client Needs
Resources:
- Susan's Facebook
- Susan's Instagram
- Susan's Linkedin
- Susan's divorce coaching website
- Susan's divorce coaching website for kids with special needs
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[00:00:00] Very early on pre CO. I would do this at the library, so it's free. Now you might only have a dozen people show up, but the library's mailer goes to every home in your whole county or your whole district. So technically you are giving a one hour free presentation. You might only get a dozen people showing up, but literally thousands of people.
Got the library flyer that said that this was gonna be there. So I do think beyond that 30 minute free call, 1, 2, 3 times a month, giving that free presentation, inviting people, that is a huge conversion rate as well.
I am Sylvie Garibaldi, founder and CEO of a well-established marketing training and done-for-you services company, tailored specifically for the modern legal and financial professional worldwide. While it's taken some trial and error to figure out which methods get the best results for [00:01:00] professionals who are looking to grow their practices, fast forward to today.
My team and I have nailed down and perfected a process that has helped so many of our clients consistently achieve outstanding results and create a legacy for their practices. I created the Serve First Sell Later marketing podcast to give you simple, actionable, non-salesy and results driven marketing to grow your legal or financial practice like so many of our clients have.
If you're a lawyer, mediator, financial or divorce professional who is looking to become highly visible and wants to create a practice that makes an impact, then you're in the right place. Let's dive in.
Hello everyone and welcome back to episode 79 of the Serve First Sell Later Marketing podcast. I just wrapped an energizing conversation with Dr. Susan Gob Bernstein, the powerhouse behind divorce coach Plus. So Susan is a certified divorce coach, [00:02:00] a certified high conflict divorce coach, and a fun fact, a former teacher, school administrator and college professor with a doctorate in child development.
She's also the go-to coach for everyone. From everyday parents to celebrities navigating complex divorces. What really wowed me was Susan's marketing mindset. We dug into the exact strategies that keep her practice top of mind for attorneys, coaches, and high net worth clients. Plus how she built a thriving online community for parents of children with special needs.
Trust me. Her approach is both smart and refreshingly down to earth. Let's dive in.
Welcome, Susan. So excited to have you on the show today. And first off, thank you for taking the time for being here and sharing your knowledge with our listeners. So Susan, I know you are a powerhouse, , in the divorce coaching world because not only have you built a thriving coaching practice of [00:03:00] your own.
You've also dedicated some time to the training and mentoring of other divorce coaches to sharpen their skills, build their confidence, and really grow their own successful practices. So in today's episode, I'm really excited to be talking about the business side of divorce coaching and what it takes to stand out in a crowded market and the marketing moves that actually work.
So welcome, Susan. I'm really excited to have you here today. Thank you so much for having me, and I'm excited to be here. So I thought we could start off by helping the listeners by walking us through your own journey and how did you start out in the divorce coaching business? And what inspired you, , to step into this work?
Great question and , I'll try to give you the shorter version, , instead of the longer version. But historically, I was an educator, a school teacher, [00:04:00] administrator, college professor, educational consultant. I had earned my bachelor's, master's and doctorate in education and child development. And so, , when I went through my own divorce, which.
At the time, I had three young children and my oldest child has severe special needs. I said, why me? I wanted to just hide under the covers, but I knew hiding under the covers was not possible. They had an epiphany. Maybe this is happening to me. A very high conflict divorce, custody battle, hidden money, domestic abuse.
Maybe it's happening to me so I can help others. So I switched from education consulting to divorce consulting. At the time, this is more than a decade ago, I didn't know about certified divorce coaching. I just called myself a divorce consultant. You know, you have your doctorate, you hang up your shingle.
And then a couple years in, I heard about the Certified Divorce Coach program. I went through that training. I was. So excited that there was a [00:05:00] group, that there was an ethics committee, that there was continuing ed and other people similar and a structure to divorce coaching. And then since then I've earned five different divorce coaching certificates.
I teach for two of the national international programs and I also teach a mastermind to divorce coaches, , on getting and retaining clients. So we're in our ninth cohort of my mastermind as well. Wow, what a journey. Yeah. That is so interesting how that all unfolded , and the work that you're doing now.
So congratulations. That is such important work. Thank you. So what, what would you say were some of the early marketing efforts that really helped you get your first couple of clients in divorce coaching? Because I would imagine that that's not , a simple thing to do. So I believe first off.
As a coach, um, acknowledging that the word divorce is a sticky word, right? And a lot of people hear it and they have a [00:06:00] negative connotation for it, and , you wonder how people are you gonna even respond. So . As a coach, having your own mindset and mentality that you can share with others, right?
, I tell everyone, I'm not pro divorce, I'm pro helping someone who's in a miserable situation get unstuck. So we either fix the relationship. Or we get them out as smoothly as possible, right? So people aren't thinking, oh, all she's is is pro divorce. No, I just want people to be happy, so let's fix it, or let's get you out of that miserable situation.
And then once you have confidence in that mindset, really being able to communicate it to others, I. Feel there's a need for someone to have more than just a divorce attorney. I loved my divorce attorney. He was the best thing since sliced bread. My legal fees were literally because it was so high conflict, more than a million dollars just from my end.
I am one of those people who [00:07:00] had the more than million dollar divorce, and so could I have lowered my fees. I'm sure by using a coach to deal with emotional aspect instead of the legal. So I never would replace , an attorney. But you work as a team, right? And so kind of explaining people and empowering people, knowledge is power.
Wait a second. What is a divorce coach? So it's the mindset that this is not, divorce is not necessarily a bad thing. You're helping people get to a happier place. The mindset that you are going to empower them, you're gonna save them time, money, and headaches, and spreading the word, almost, making, a certified divorce coach.
Part of the daily household name, right? Oh, that is a profession. So many people haven't heard about it. So just educating people as far as what that role is. Yes, I love that. So like the mindset is absolutely critical to anyone that is growing. [00:08:00] Any kind of business, especially in professional services. And we see that a lot we call it a marketing mindset block where people fear putting themselves out there.
There's imposter syndrome. , All of those things seem to pop up. So I really like how you reframed how they thought about divorce coaching. so that they see it as something that is. Helping others. And I know one of the things we always say is , if you're not out there being visible and educating people, how can they even know that you exist?
And if they don't know that you exist , they can never buy from you and you can never help. Them resolve that problem. So kind of removing yourself from, you're right, that negative connotation of divorce coaching, meaning it's over, there's nothing really good about it, and you're just kind of helping them through that.
So I really like the way you reframe that. So you would say that some of the key things that you did to get, , some of your first clients was reframing your mindset around, , divorce coaching. Was, is there anything else that stood out for you that you. We're [00:09:00] able to do to find the first couple of clients.
I think really it was talking to, listen, I do a cooking club, a book club, a Mahjong group, PTA, I'm a, you know, the soccer mom, the girl scout mom, like, so just talking to those people in your religious institution, the people who know you, right? Yeah. Wow. I see her on the soccer field. I see her in the school.
I see her at, at at synagogue or church. So starting with the people who know you, letting them know. Hey, I'm doing something. I'm helping people. There's a gap. I'm filling that gap, and I'm trained. I'm certified. Right? So there's a big difference between someone who's certified and someone who just calls themselves like, and I admit the first two years I just called myself a divorce consultant.
I wasn't trained or certified, right? I didn't know what I was doing. So knowing that there's a certified profession out there and that. They go along with an attorney or mediator and that's, they can be part of the team and you can help them navigate it as smoothly as possible. So [00:10:00] getting the people who know you out there, I mean, you know, and we'll talk more about this, but then really spreading it to people who know others.
Right. Telling your hairdresser. Telling your nail person, telling your gynecologist, telling your internist, just spreading the word. Hey, if you know anyone who's going through this, they're not alone. There's coaches who are trained in this to help. And as you know, people tell their hairdresser secrets, right?
And so really telling that type of people. And then really the networking as far as with other. A divorce professionals, attorneys mediators, certified divorce financial analysts, you know, certified divorce lending professionals, which is the mortgage brokers who are trained in divorce certified
real estate agents, like all these professions, have a divorce. Category and certificate Yes. Uh, therapists and letting them know I wanna work with you. Right. There's , a lane for all of [00:11:00] us to work together. And so I actually formed my chapter of the National Association of Divorce Professionals from my area in New York.
I went out, I found professionals and that was. Half a dozen years ago or more. So bringing these professionals together if, if a group doesn't exist, I created that group, but I used a national organization to create a local chapter. I. Yeah, I love that. I love that. So word of mouth marketing was very big for you.
Being able to, you know, spread the words to the people around you about what you do. , and then also networking with your referral partners. So that sounds like, you know, the three things that you did was, , reframe your mindset, work with those referral partners, find them, and then also spreading the word of mouth to, , everyone around you about what you do and that it is certified, . So looking back at that now, , I'm just curious, what do you think was your biggest marketing mistake that you made that you could learn [00:12:00] from when you first started, ? Yeah, and that, that is a good question. , I think because.
I believe very strongly that I always offer a free consult, and I never charge to give someone the name of an attorney or mediator any professional. And so I think that as a coach, if we're the center of the wheel and if we're a resource provider, it's. Ethically Right, to give at least two names. Right?
And so I would say early on I might have always just been giving one name or I might have been, you know, not providing them enough range of people. Here's an attorney who has a solo practice versus a lot, or here's an attorney who has a high hourly rate versus someone who has a, an associate who can do a lot of the paperwork.
So I think early on it was. Who are you aligning with, and are you just funneling people to one person or one type, or are you [00:13:00] giving those clients a range where they can choose? Right. Okay. So you're, so you're suggesting that, um, giving a variety of, , connections to people that first come see you.
And so do you think it was because you didn't have enough? So is is it building that list, would you say? A hundred percent yes. Yeah. At this point, I mean, listen, I have so many friends who are insurance agents, but it's like if someone wants to introduce me to a new insurance agent or a new certified divorce financial analyst.
I'm always happy to do it if someone knows personally, but I'm not out there seeking them because there's so many good ones, right? And how many can you spread out? Right? But I do believe you'll see it on Facebook all the time. I need a name of a good divorce attorney, and I truly do believe that a good divorce attorney or a good anything for one person.
Might not be for someone else. Right? And so I recently talk to people about, you know, , that what are your specific needs and challenges and wants and who's the right match? So I [00:14:00] do always give a free consult, and that has helped my business immensely because I have a very high conversion rate. I can explain what a divorce coach does, I can connect them to an attorney or mediator or.
Several so they can choose. So they see me as a resource provider and I show them during that consult my worth, how it's worth it to sign up what I can bring to make their divorce go as smoothly as possible. Mm-hmm. So I do think anyone, like, obviously everyone sees TV shows and movies about a divorce attorney.
Most divorce attorneys, if they're quote, good charge because most people know what a divorce attorney does. People don't know what a certified divorce coach does, so it's worth it for me to give that free consult to then have them turn into paid clients. Yes. That makes total sense. Well, I think the world of, , divorce coaching, divorce, mediation, collaborative law, all those things, there is such a low awareness of them [00:15:00] publicly, and this is why.
We do the work that we do in marketing for helping these professionals market their practices because the awareness is so low. So it starts with the education first, but just getting back to growing that directory of referral partners. I really love that idea because that's something that we teach our clients a lot in the beginning of what they need to do because building referral partnerships take time and it's the know, like, and trust factor.
And so you know when people come to you. You have already established a relationship with these other professionals, which doesn't happen overnight. Yeah, right. So they refer to you, you refer to them, but it's based on trust. I always say, you can't rely on one or two professionals to, , help you grow your business
and I think spending the time upfront and developing those referral partners, , is key. And you're absolutely right, having multiple ones. Is essential because based on the needs of what people they're struggling [00:16:00] with, you need to match them accordingly. , so from a marketing and visibility standpoint, is there anything that you felt worked really well for you when you were growing your practice?
So. , If for some reason they don't convert to a paid client after that free consult, what I make sure I do is one or two or three times a month. I give Now, since COVID a free information zoom. , prior to COVID I would do a free talk at the library or free, in person instead of zoom.
Now everything's on Zoom. 'cause again, I'm certified throughout the country. I have clients throughout the country. I have clients in 18 other countries. I mean, it's really international. But I do think that offering that one hour information zoom, , can make a difference. So the marketing is, let me post a flyer, come to this zoom.
It's confidential, you're gonna get something out of it. There's no commitment. And often I will do an . Information Zoom with an attorney, with a mediator, with [00:17:00] a certified divorce financial analyst. So it's like, wow, I see how those people play a role and that marketing of that information Zoom, letting people know it's out there has made a difference.
Very early on pre CO. I would do this at the library, so it's free. Now you might only have a dozen people show up, but the library's mailer goes to every home in your whole county or your whole district. So technically you are giving a one hour free presentation. You might only get a dozen people showing up, but literally thousands of people.
Got the library flyer that said that this was gonna be there. So I do think beyond that 30 minute free call, 1, 2, 3 times a month, giving that free presentation, inviting people, that is a huge conversion rate as well. And them seeing your name, all those households who saw Susan Bernstein 10 mistakes to avoid in divorce.
Now they got it. [00:18:00] Mm-hmm. I think you've hit the nail on the head with the type of marketing that you're doing in terms of, , zoom meetings or webinars, , workshops, whatever you wanna call them. They are super powerful because they educate and they build credibility.
So I absolutely love that you're doing that. So do you do this Susan, like. Is it once a month, twice a month? Like what is your consistency in delivering these informational or educational, , webinars, would you say? So I joined Vesta Divorce, which is a national divorce organization. I'm on their advisory board.
I started their New York Hub. Everything I do, I try to be a leader in what I do. , But what they do, when I joined it was three times a month, but now they do one time a month, they have the New York hub, they have Massachusetts, they have California. So I, for the vested divorce, always do the second Wednesday at 8:00 PM.
Eastern on Zoom. That's with Vesta. Okay. And [00:19:00] that's, so that's a given automatic and anyone's invited to that. Then I will collaborate with anyone who I've had a one-on-one with or met at a networking event saying, oh, let's do an information zoom. So that's where you would do something with those other preferred partners, those powerhouse partners that you're talking about.
Those are one-offs. Sometimes you do one a season, a couple in a row, but that's where the others fall in. Fantastic. And so, if , a prospect doesn't convert, you're always inviting them every month to these workshops and webinars. Correct.
Because it, it continues to educate them and, , there's a possibility that they can convert. Because now they're listening to you and seeing and hearing from you and, and obviously the education process is big, so I absolutely love that. So you now mentor and train other divorce coaches. , so what are some of the biggest marketing challenges that you think they face?
I know you've shared with me what yours were, but what do you see that these new divorce coaches or, newly [00:20:00] certified divorce coaches are facing, would you say? I. There's several things. So I think one is dealing with the overwhelm, right? They're not bringing in the money yet. Yet. Do they do a website?
Do they join a networking group? Do they pay a marketing agency? What do they do? So helping them figure out. Who they are, what their niche is, and what will best express them. Right? So some divorce coaches really love TikTok. Others won't touch TikTok with a 10 foot pole, right? And so it's also, who are you and who do you wanna be?
So really helping them hone in on that. Who do they want their audience to be? We know research shows Facebook, it does not have a ton of 20 and 30 year olds. Now on the same note, there's not a ton of 20 and 30 year olds getting divorced, right? So the numbers go up. So, but if you, if you want the young divorces, you might advertise on [00:21:00] something different than Facebook.
So thinking about who, who you are, gearing it to. I take men and women. Some people just want women, so where are they targeting them? There's some divorce coaches that actually have stuff on Pinterest, which sounds interesting. Divorce coaching, advertising, marketing on Pinterest. But guess what? If that's their niche and they care about it, it'll show through and they do get clients there.
So helping them really think about what their brand is, who they are, what their niche is, and then finding their audience. Right. So targeting, I guess the, the first step is targeting and, and being very, a little bit more specific. I know a lot of people when they're first starting out are nervous about, targeting because then they feel that they're turning, um, others away.
So how do you get them to focus in on creating that ideal market or that niche, if you will? I do say within divorce coaching, 'cause some [00:22:00] people are life coaches who specialize in divorce and they think that's a niche. But I say within divorce coaching there's so many niches and it doesn't mean that you have to turn people away.
So like I have the two niches, I have the high conflict divorce and I have the intersection of divorce with special needs children's. So both of those are my special. I certainly have people who don't have special needs children. I certainly have people who are amicable, but that's not who I'm advertising for.
That's not who my I'm marketing for, right? Like I'm meeting with attorneys who can handle those high conflict litigation. I'm meeting with people who deal with families with special needs children, so I'm targeting that, but I'm not gonna turn away. An amicable couple who has no children or a gray divorce where their children are emancipated.
Just 'cause that's my specialty doesn't mean I can't help them. So I do think that people shouldn't worry about having a niche. It makes you look like an expert and you will still get those outliers as well. Right, right. So just being [00:23:00] specific and marketing to who your ideal market is. And so that, that's what we call proactive marketing.
Reactive is when people come to you that are not part of your niche because they weren't attracted to your marketing or maybe they didn't even see your marketing. , But. They, they aren't people that you're gonna turn away because you can still service them. Right. So I guess you, you're referring to the proactive and then the reactive marketing.
So that, that's great. You are teaching them to really focus in on, Hey, let's figure this out. Because every marketing message, every positioning, every presentation, every conversation you have with someone really hinges on who you are. Best serving who you're getting the best results for.
So, , I think that that's absolutely critical. , so we talked a little bit about the imposter syndrome, and I know you touched on that a little bit in terms of the marketing mindset and so the new divorce certified coaches coming in, is that something that they struggle with as [00:24:00] well or is that. Maybe not as, , prevalent.
I do think so, especially for the high conflict coaches, right? So they wonder if they have healed their trauma of the high conflict divorce or custody battles, if they will be triggered by helping someone else in a custody battle or something like that, right? And do you fake it till you make it?
Are you ready? Or do you wanna stay away from custody battles if it's too close to home to you? But for the Mastermind, each and every time I do it. , It's getting clients and retaining clients is the theme. So we talk about getting clients. You need the business skills. You could be the best coach in the world, but if you don't have the business skills to get people in the door to let them know you're the best coach, they are not coming back.
So every time we have the mastermind. Half the time focuses on the business side of it, right? You're an entrepreneur, you work for yourself. There's very few coaches that work for someone else, and a lot of people had a career prior to divorce coaching, [00:25:00] right? Like I was an educator. You went, you got a paycheck.
You don't have those business skills. So helping people with the business skills to shine their coaching skills. Then you have some people who did have a business background or a sales background their coaching skills are lacking and so most coaches sell packages 2, 5, 12 hours.
That's what I'm doing this year. My is different years. I have different hourly packages, but so I might have the best business skills in the world and someone might buy a package of five or 12, but they might not renew because my coaching wasn't great. So the other half of the Mastermind is. How do you strengthen your coaching?
How do you make sure that they're gonna keep rebuying packages of five, they wanna keep coming back? So a lot of it is not just the business skills, it is really strengthening their coaching skills. And so the imposter syndrome goes away when they feel more confident about their coaching skills and they see people rebuying.
'cause if someone's rebuying. They see it was [00:26:00] worthwhile. So I literally teach them what to say on the free consults, what to say at the beginning and the end of every session. And then in between sessions, right, how to be in touch with those clients in between sessions and how to be in touch with potential clients who haven't signed up, but in between as well.
So really the nitty gritty. And so what would you say, I mean, if, if let's say they're working with someone for, as you said, did you say, was it five and 12? Two, five and 12? People can pick two, five, and 12 and 12, and they keep re Okay. So let's say you're working with them for five months and, , so at what point would you start the, , the conversation so that they do renew?
, and what, what would that process look like? So what I can say, well, first off. It's the hours. So they're buying instead of months, they're buying two, five, or 12 hours. Now some, oh, sorry, hours. It's okay. And I different coaches do. Some coaches do do months, but for me it's by the hour.
And I can say some clients will use two hours a week, some two hours a month, some [00:27:00] two hours a season. It ebbs and flows based on their needs. But what happens is, for me, for a paid client at the end of. Every single session. Once they paid that two, five, or 12 before they hang up, I ask them two things, man or woman.
They say, what are you gonna do to reduce your stress for self-care? Because this is not a race, it's a marathon. And so many people, the moms are so used to taking care of their kids. They're like, thank you for asking me that. I, I need to do something for myself. They appreciate, and the men laugh. They're like, no one ever asked me about self-care, but they need it.
So they appreciate that you are reminding them you need to do something for yourself. We can't wait till the end. Right. And then after that question, I always, before they hang up, I say. Was this helpful? And a hundred percent of the time they say yes. So I'm not waiting until their sessions are ending to say, [00:28:00] was this helpful?
They hang up and they had just told me yes. So they're feeling good about it. , Only one time in the 10 and a half years I've been doing this, did someone say No? And it was an in-person session and she goes, I'm not done. I want more. And I said, I have to leave. I have a next client. So her, no was that she just wanted more, but literally that was the only person who ever said no, and I'm proud of that.
Now, going back to the very beginning of the session for paid clients, this is once they pay, when they pay. The very first thing I say to them at the beginning of each call is, fill me in. What's happened since we talked? Right? So I want an update. And then I say, what do you wanna focus on to get your money's worth?
Do you know how many people are so ha Wow, Susan charges a lot, but she's telling me. I just paid you a lot. Now what do I wanna get out of it? And that's why they say it. We spend [00:29:00] 50 minutes focusing on whatever topic they wanna talk about related to what is on their mind. And at the end, was this helpful?
Yes, because I directly asked them what they wanted to focus on to get their money's worth. That was the session. It's not for me. Oh, this is the third time we're gonna talk about custody. Each client is different. It's what their needs are, fulfilling them and confirming they got what they wanted. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so let's say you're at the end of the five hours, for example, and they say, yes, it was helpful. Do you, do you ask them, would you be interested in doing more hours? Or how do you just leave it like. It's a given, , 99% of the time. What I say to them is, you know, okay, great. And then I will check in.
So after each session, when's your next court? When's your next mediation? When is this? So I will always have a follow up text. I text my clients. I think it's personal, and so I'll say, good luck in court, or [00:30:00] Please text me after court. And then they do. And then I'll say, do you wanna debrief? Do you wanna have a session?
So it's just assumed that they're gonna renew until they're post-divorce. And if they're post-divorce, congratulations, hold onto my number. I can help you with the variety. And I list several things I can help post-divorce. 'cause that is one of my certifications. Post-divorce transition recovery. So the people post-divorce.
We'll rebuy as needed, unless they are coming to me for post-divorce abuse, which is the high conflict, which is my specialty. So a little less than a third of my clients, probably about 25%, maybe between a third and a quarter, are post-divorce. They need help. Post-divorce. So it, it just depends where they are in the process, but it's just, yeah, assuming they're gonna rebuy.
And the other thing I do, like how you mentioned some clients, some coaches do do a three month package or something. My sessions don't expire. So someone could buy [00:31:00] 12 by 12 by 12 and then hold on to four or five. It's it, it's there for you. So it's not use it or lose it, it's there for you and they feel good about it.
Right. Right, right. And so I really like the idea or the concept that, , at the end, well, you're always checking in at, at every session did they find it helpful? But particularly at the end of, let's say, the five hours, , you have certain events, triggers, , that you will check in with them to determine, hey, how did that go .
What was the outcome? And so those little various checkpoints allows you, or gives you permission or gives them some thought process to say, oh boy, I think I need Susan again because this just happened in the court case, so sounds to me, if I'm understanding correctly, that's how you get them to renew again because, correct.
It's based on a need. Yes, absolutely. , And because of my training, I [00:32:00] can help relate it to the finances. I can help relate it to the custody. I can help with problem solving. I can help with strategy, I can help with court prep, I can help with co-parenting, I can help with so many different aspects, um, that.
99% of the time, if they say there's a need, I'm able to fill it. Now I do sometimes refer out, right? If they say my spouse is divorcing me, they, they told me that they, , had kept a secret and they are gay and they want to, you know, divorce me and they want a gay partner. There are coaches out there who have that, right?
So I might refer someone whose niche is divorced from someone whose partner has now told them that they're gay. , that's not my specialty, I admit that. Right? I had someone one time come to me and she was divorcing from the Seventh Day Adventist religion and there it's a very specific for divorce. So guess what?
I, I don't have experience in [00:33:00] divorce with Seventh Day Aven, so I put a call out to my network. Are there any coaches who either were raised with this, know this, are comfortable taking that client? So I'll admit if I am not an expert in that or if it's not in my comfort zone, and I'll refer out.
Mm-hmm. And so referring out is obviously using that, that very extensive referral partner that you've developed over the years and continue to develop. So that, that's absolutely fantastic. Um, so speaking of marketing and getting online and reaching. You know, the different, the different markets out there.
. When you think about you, just you, you triggered something when you said, you know, I offer co-parenting all these different options that maybe.
Your average divorce coach does not offer. Mm-hmm. So how do you communicate all these different areas of expertise that you have so that your market [00:34:00] is well versed? That they can come to you for this, right? Because divorce coaching is broad. , there are so many different specialties but you also offer, you know, a whole host of services.
How do you let your market know that these are the things that you offer? Like if I were to Google you online, would, would I learn about that? Would I know that? So it's a multi-part question with multi-part answers. So certainly my website list. A lot of the things that I can do, right? Yeah. Certainly on my Facebook, my LinkedIn and my Instagram, they can see the presentations I've done with the narcissist, with co-parenting, with divorce, with the intersection of special needs children.
So if they do check me out, they can see this, they can see all the podcasts I've done, so they can do that. But what has happened over the last decade is that not only do you get referrals from. Other professionals, but you get referrals from clients who have had you. And so [00:35:00] it is almost like. Pavlov's dog experiment, right?
Like, so if anyone on Facebook in the New York or New Jersey, I'm in New York, but I you could literally kick a soccer ball into New Jersey, I'm right on the border. Okay? And so I really cover, those are my home two states, if that makes sense. And of course, divorce Law is totally different in New York and New Jersey.
But that's why I have my resources. I don't tell them the legal aspect. I prepare them the questions for them to ask their attorneys. But the point is, if anyone in this region, which is very dense with population, mentions the word divorce, I. So many past clients will say, you must contact Susan. , and they'll tag me.
And so when I see my name tagged, I go in and I say, yes, I offer a complimentary call. It's confidential, it's non-judgmental. I can assist with that. And that's what takes time. And I do have to say for the people who are working with you and listening, you know, [00:36:00] I can say you're not making six figures in your first year, right?
It's gonna be hard to make six figures in your first year. Can you make six figures by the end of your second year? Yes. Right. Does it take hard work? Absolutely. But so many people will give up and, and that is it. So it is partly recognizing that something successful doesn't happen overnight. I.
So true. Yeah, absolutely. And it takes, , so much time and effort , to get there and, , marketing yourself, promoting yourself, building referral partners. It does not happen overnight. And I think people's expectations, are that they expect marketing and just doing the hard work is gonna get you there.
But it takes time, it takes persistence, , and it takes a lot of consistency like. People will just put themselves out there today and then maybe they'll post a social media post three weeks from now. Well, , that's not consistency. And so I know we stress, we stress that a lot because [00:37:00] that's super important, , for people to understand that, as I'm sure you do as well.
So Susan, I'd love to hear more about like how people can connect with you or learn more about your programs. So I give everyone my phone number, um, the (551) 444-2609, and I do turn it off when I sleep. So I tell people they can message me 24 7. They will not wake me up. And, and really to reach out, whether it is a professional or someone who wants assistance or someone who wants to collaborate.
I'm always up for that. I say Let's all rise together. I'm happy to have people join the Mastermind or , I coach coaches individually as well, but they pay my client rate, right, which is high. And so if they want that individual hour, which is why I offer the Mastermind because I can do it at a lower rate.
It's a group of people, and unlike a divorce where it's so different in a mastermind, you can focus on something that that group of [00:38:00] coaches wants. Right. Okay. And we'll put all the links in the show notes too. Thank you. So people can reach out to you. Should they have any questions or any further interest?
Should I say my website also maybe? Sure, yeah. Okay. So my website is divorce coach plus p s.com and I also run divorce with special needs. children.com. So I run two websites nationally, internationally to help people. Fantastic. Any parting thoughts, Susan?
Um, I truly feel divorce coaching is the best profession. There's no pre-work like a financial person. There's no post-work like a therapist who has to take notes. You can do it from anywhere. You can do it from a cruise ship, from the beach, from your car. , And the people are so grateful for your help.
So I really think that, , most divorce coaches have been through it themselves [00:39:00] and they're doing it for a reason, and they have the passion. And I would say if someone has the passion, they should not get upset if it doesn't come to them immediately. That this is a career that is.
Amazing, financially amazing as far as being fulfilling to make a difference in the world, and that they should certainly reach out to me or others to mentor them or to help them to get them over that hump so that they can get what they're looking for out of it. Awesome. Thank you so much, Susan, , for joining us today and for your incredible insights.
I know our listeners are gonna be walking away with so many practical takeaways and, , fresh inspiration and great marketing ideas, so I really appreciate your honesty, your wisdom, and really the generous ways that you've shared your experience and knowledge. And it's. Clear to me, as I'm sure it's gonna be clear to our listeners that your work is making a real difference, , not just for your clients, [00:40:00] but for the professionals that you mentor as well.
So thank you. Thank you so much. I greatly appreciate it.